tv WSJ at Large With Gerry Baker FOX Business December 6, 2020 9:30am-10:00am EST
news. plus right here on fox business start smart every weekday from 6-3 a.m. eastern for "mornings with maria with." we hope you will join us every weekday at 6. that'll do it for us for this we thank you so much for joining us. see you next time, have a great rest of the weekend. mug. ♪ ♪ >> hello and welcome to "the wall street journal at large", i'm david asman in for jerry baker this week. ing covid continues to dominate the economic outlook. while the u.s. economy has been recovering better than many expected from its dramatic deline in the spring, the trajectory e is now uncertain with covid spikes and the threat from hypocritical politicians of further lockdowns and congress' repeated failure to pass a covid relief bill. former fed chair janet yellen tapped to be biden's treasury
secretary this week, sharing a bleak economic outlook if the u.s. fails to act. listen. >> it's an american tragedy, and it's essential to move with urgency. inaction will produce a self-reinforcing downturn causing yet more devastation. david: meanwhile, november's unemployment rate comes down to 6.7%. that's good news. but the new job numbers were disappointing, signaling that the recovery is slowing a bit. and no wonder considering the determination of some local and state leaders to keep people from resuming normal life with draconian lockdown orders that call for even more restrictions. listen. >> regions where the icu capacitity is falling below 15%, we are now mandating that we are implementing a stay-at-how many order for three weeks. david: the nation's economic fate really hinging on the period of delivering the
covid-19 vaccine. but a slight setback there as well as pfizer admit es they'll be slashing their vaccine rollout target in half after a supply chain problem. more on that later in the show with brown university's dean of public health, dr. jah. and if a riff growing among democrats with every biden cabinet pick. will the far left of the party quit on biden as they balk at moderate picks? but first, to the economy. joining me now is macro mavens president, stephanie pomeroy. great to see you, and a lovely kitchen, i must say, stephanie. [laughter] it was clearly a disappointing jobs number. the number was about half of what was expected. 245,000 new jobs. but it's important to put all this in perspective was there were a lot of people back in the spring who were saying we would continue with double-digit unemployment throughout 2020. and, clearly, that hasn't happened. the third quarter bounceback of
the economy, over 33%, was extraordinary. >> absolutely. i think a lot of that speaks to the stimulus from reopening, or you know? the key was really to just get the economy reopened, and the sad thing is, as you mentioned in your open there, is we're seeing all that start to be rolled back in a lot of major parts of the country. so that is reflected, obviously, in the somewhat weaker employment report we saw for november. and i would also note -- not to add, you know, negative news -- but the tickdown in the unemployment rate was actually not necessarily a positive in that it happened because the labor force shrank. lesses people were in the labor force. so it's not a good indication of the trend right now, and, you know, unless we get back to reopening the economy rather than shutting things down, it's hard to see where that changes anytime in the immediate --
david: it's my personal opinion that open oping the economy's more important than any kind of stimulus coming from washington. again, you mentioned people leaving the work force. more unemployment benefits coming from washington would provide more disincentives for people leaving the work force, right? >> absolutely. i mean, paying people to stay at home is something i'm sure people would happily do, you know? is. [laughter] but all kidding aside, i mean, i think, you know, when we look back on the period, you'll see that a lot of the policies, first, the mandatory shutdowns and, you know, the requirement to wear masks, all of these things probably ended up doing more harm than good. but i'm, you know, not a doctor. so i will not play one on tv. david: right, right, right. >> but from the standpoint of the economy, i think one of the consequences of what we've done with all the stimulus is that while the markets are
discounting a return to normal once we get this vaccine distributed, you know, in the early part of next year, there are several things that have changed as a function of this pandemic, and number one is that we have added $5 trillion of debt on top of an economy that already had, you know, huge amounts of debt. david: that's true. >> and, importantly, $1 trillion of that was on the corporate side. david: good point. >> so corporations have added another trillion in this borrowing bonanza that's been green lighted by the fed's incredible stimulus. david: stephanie, we only have about a 15 seconds, but you think of the possibility, all of that pent-up demand all over the world, by the way, will be released by the vaccine. and that, that release is going to create more economic activity, a bigger spurt than i think this world has ever seen.
don't you agree? quickly. >> i disagree with that. i think that's the outcome that's priced into the market. market cap's $4 trillion higher than it was at the beginning of the year, so it's discounting not just a return to normal, but exactly the outcome you're thinking about. i think all the risk is to the other side. david: i would love to debate you on that, but that's for another day. [laughter] pleasure to see you, stephanie, thanks very much for being here. coming up, pfizer's vaccine rollout hitting an unexpected snag. how bad is it? and how do you commit the anti-vaccers to take [ thunder rumbles ] [ engine rumbling ] ♪ [ beeping ] [ engine revs ] ♪ uh, you know there's a 30-minute limit, right? tell that to the rain.
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and provides hope to children and families who need it most. give now to grant wishes today. david: well, the beginning of the end of the coronavirus pandemic is hitting complications. pharma giant pfizer cutting it target for a rollout of its vaccine by half as unexpected delays hit production and distribution. the first doses of the pfizer
vaccine in the u.s. are expected to be delivered to new york on december 15th with the moderna vaccine coming out a week later, that is, if both are approved by the food and drug administration. here now is the dean the school of public health for brown university, dr. jah. how big of a setback is the news by pfizer? >> it's unfortunate, right? we want these vaccines out as quickly as possible. i think, like, in the long view it's not that big a deal. it'll slow things down a little bit, but right now with things as bad as they are, any setback is a little bit unfortunate. david: i'm wondering, the u.k. has approved use of the vaccine, of the pfizer vaccine. i'm wondering if that slowed things up for us, the fact that they have to have all those doses ready for the u.k. now. >> no, i don't think it did because pfizer had a plan for both the u.s. and the u.k. and the rest of the world in terms
of how many doses were going to go to each place. i don't think b the u.k. moving about 8, 9 days before us will end up making a meaningful difference for us. everybody's got their allocated doses, it's just half of what we initially thought. david: it does get under a lot of people's skin, they're going to get the vaccine before we do. >> first of all, not a competition with the u.k., love the u.k., they've done a good job. our fda is really the gold standard, and they are going through the data very, very carefully. and in the long run, i'd rather have it be e done right, i'd rather have that extra measure of care. i think it'll build confidence. so i think 8, 9-day delay is not a big deal if welcome make sure we get it right. david: there's a big question that the pfizer chairman was talking about the orr day, the question of whether somebody can still pass on the virus even if they've been inoculated against it. do you have any ideas on that
front? >> yeah. we don't know. the short answer is we don't know. the bit of a longer answer is i would suspect, based on everything we understand about this vaccine, that the proportion of people who can transmit the virus should go way down if you've been inoculated. but we've got to look at the data, and i think that information will become more available over the next few weeks. david: then there's the question of the aunt-vaccers and people who just say it's not necessarily this vaccine, it's any vaccine. 40% of americans in one poll said that they would not be taking the vaccine if they have a choice in the mart. that means that 60% would. is 60 of the population taking the vaccine enough to create herd immunity? >> yeah, so 60% will help a lot, david, but it will not get us where we want to be. if we really want this pandemic behind us and under good control, we probably need to get to 70 or 80%. and the way i see it is of the
40%, some of them may be people who really strongly feel about vaccines, but others are just hesitant because the vaccine development has gone fast, and i think we need to talk openly with people about how every step of a vaccine testing has been done. and i suspect we'll be able to get to 70, 80% with good communication and open and honest and transparent data sharing. david: and going, quickly, back to the top of this questioning, the pfizer vaccine, they claim even though they're going to be rolled out concerns about how quickly they'll get the first doses out, they still claim they're on target for delivering 1.3 billion doses by the end of 2021. is that target still possiblesome. >> i think it is possible. we're going to, remember, there are 6 or 7 billion people in the world we're going to want to get vaccinated, so we're going to need 10, 12 billion doses of these vaccines.
i suspect it'll fall into 2022, but we're going to need all the vaccines we can get. david: when you think of how remarkable this progress has been on the vaccine front. dr. jha, thanks for coming on, appreciate it. coming up, pressure intensifies as biden weighs three top cabinet picks, and liberal don't worry, julie... coughing's not new. this woman coughs... and that guy does, too. people cough in the country, at sea, and downtown. but don't worry, julie...
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and right now we're offering no payments for 18 months. ♪ >> we need to make sure that president-elect joe biden is picking as many progressives to his cabinet as possible. we support people like janet yellen, people like john kerry and some others, but when i hear named like rahm emanuel and bruce reid, you know, it makes my skin crawl.
[laughter] david: one of the newest editions to aoc's squad, jamal bowman, speaking out against joe biden for not being progressive enough. joining me now is the editor and publisher of jacobin magazine and author of "the socialist manifesto." and former senior adviser to joe biden, moe vela. i won't ask you who makes your skin crawl. we'll focus first on policies, maybe then on personalities. which of your policy goals as a socialist are you most worried about getting cut or watered down by biden agenda? >> well, i think the most important thing right now is what we can do to restore -- in this country. joe biden has made overtures to organized labor, but it's to get people to turn out to vote for them, and they don't actually
follow through on it. and labor, to me, is the bedrock for everything else. we're not going to have an economy that works for people who don't have a seat at the table. david: besides that overall goal, is there any specific policy that would are relate to that goal, any particular policy with regard to the labor department or regulations, etc. >> well, i think, obviously, in particular the pro s is something that i would think we would need to see the biden administration lobby heavily. i think the nlrb appointments will probably be fine but, obviously, i always have end trepidation be because that's a crucial piece for america. david: so you're looking for the appointments, again, i was trying to focus on policy, but, mo, it does come down to personalities, doesn't it? >> it does in many ways.
let me address that as somebody who worked for joe biden, as you mentioned. joe biden has over 45 years of relationships that are strong and very, very beautiful with unions, with organized labor. he has been a friend of labor full for all of his entire career. so i want people to rest easy. you're going to have a friend in joe biden for unions, there's no doubt about that for organized labor. i'm optimist ic on that front. and it does come down to personalities in some way. the bad news is i'm not a big fan of litmus tests, and so i think the more importantly, i think what we're going to keep seeing is that president-elect biden is going to keep creating and forming a very diverse cabinet, very diverse or government that's inclusive in spirit and that looks like america x. i'm personally excited about that. david: well, bhasker, let me
force the issues. we're looking into the biden picks so far. some issues that progressives care a lot about, medicare for all, for example. joe biden has pulled back, he he s to have sort of a dual system. are you okay with that, or are you going to be pushing hard for a more socialist orientation inned call care? >> well, medicare for all is the most popular powell in the united states -- policy in the united states, so i think within a few years we're going to have a majority of republicans supporting medicare for all. david: wait a minute -- forgive me, but i really think -- what gives you the idea that republicans would ever support socialized medicine? >> there's already polling that shows tremendous support for medicare for all, once clarified, that people will be able to keep their own doctors -- david: well, of course, a lot of people lost their doctors with obamacare. but, mo, the question is do you think you're going to get
republicans -- if republicans go for socialized medicine, why doesn't joe biden say, okay, i'm from socialized -- for socialized medicine? >> well, great question. again, we agree that we love our country. we might just disagree a few times on how we make her better, but i respect any disagree that republicans are going to come around in three years to support socialized medicine. i don't think that's realistic or pragmatic in any way. you know, again, having worked in washington at the highest levels, you know, joe biden possesses the gifts that are necessary right now, david, which are the ability to actually find common ground, to compromise, to collaborate, to work with people that don't necessarily always agree with youd ideologically. you idealogically. that's what's necessary. that's the reality that he faces in governing. david: well, it all sounds so lovely -- >> well, it's reality9. david: well, a member of the
squad said that some of these appointments make his skin crawl. that doesn't sound like "kumbaya," bhasker -- >> so i should say i'm talking about republican voters, not republican legislators. david: oh, i see. >> the legislators will come around to medicare for all, that won't happen. the question is whether biden can use the bullly pulpit of the presidency to push for a more expansive and comprehensive change. a public option is incredibly watered down. when it comes to appointments, i think that appointments are often irrelevant. i happen to agree on rahm emanuel, but i think in general the priorities of the administration will be set by the president, people in the cabinet will follow through and execute on those priorities and the president's priority will be ineffluenced by popular pressure and opinion and the scope that he has for action. i don't really care about the diversity of these cabinet
hoises. i think it is generally irrelevant. if you look at fdr in the 1930s, that's a lily white cabinet. they managed to deliver gains for black americans, gains for oppressed people far beyond the weight of many -- david: you know, we've got to wrap it, but i gotta tell you, you and i would agree on that one. judge people by the content of their character and policies, not by the color of their skin. great to see you both. thank you for being here. coming up, wealthy liberal politicians shaming the nation into using your tax dollars to pay off debts that they caused with their lockdowns. turns out one of these blue states doesn't need our help at all even though it's crying out for it. more on that coming
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♪ ♪ david: house speaker nancy pelosi and california governor gavin new. >> are trying to shame the rest of the nation into helping them paw off california's debts. of course, those wealthy politicians don't seem particularly concerned about managing their own spending habits whether it's pelosi splurging on expensive ice cream or somehow in at -- newsom at picety restaurants. but california, they claim, needs your money to bale out their deep losses from covid lockdowns. well, in fact, california budget firms just -- officials just announced the state will see an
extra $26 billion in tax revenue heading into the next fiscal year. this huge windfall comes primarily from taxes paid by silicon valley high-tech companies which have made out like bandits during the pandemic while thousands of small businesses have been killed. the huge high-tech companies and their highly paid employees have suffered not at all. so here's an idea, why not bail out small businesses of that have been devastated by the lockdowns with revenue from the high-tech companies that have been thriving and don't spend a penny on california's iraqlessly free-spending government which has been raking in cash while pleading poverty. at the very least, americans how old no longer believe speaker pelosi and governor newsom's arguments that the irresponsible and very rich california government deserves a opinionny more than it already has, particularly if it draws money from taxpayers in ore states who are truly suffering. nancy pelosi can buy her own
fancy ice cream without our help. that's it for us this week. gerry baker's going to be back next week with more in-depth interviews right here on "wall street journal at large." thank you for joining us. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ jack: welcome to barron's roundtable where we get behind the headlines and prepare you for the week ahead. i'm jack otter. cyber monday was the most successful online shopping day of all time. shopify president harley finkelstein will join us. and later, two hot i e pos set to start trading next month. should you invest? but we begin, as always, with what we think are the three most important things investors ought to be thinking about right now. the dow, s&p 500 and nasdaq hit all-time highs this week. supported by hopes f